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January 10, 1998
COMMENTRY
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The Rediff Interview/Pranab Mukherjee'The BJP is pathetically trying to catch hold of some breakaway groups, like a drowning man trying to grab some straw'Mandalisation is almost complete and everybody is talking in terms of transferable votes, whether it be Laloo or BSP chief Kanshi Ram or Samajwadi Party chief Mulayam Singh Yadav. In such a scenario, what is the Congress's role? I don't subscribe to the view that some have all the votes in their pockets. These things happen when the major political, social and economic issues are lost. Mandal was an issue in 1989 and 1991. People's right, which was allegedly curbed during the Emergency, became an issue in 1977. But in 1980 it was not an issue. In 1984, the issues were national unity, territorial integrity and the prime minister's assassination. It would be absolutely wrong to say that the votes are compartmentalised on the lines of caste and community. And if that has happened, we have to fight against it. In that case, it would be the end of the Indian democracy, composite culture and pluralism. You cannot fragment society on the lines of caste, community, religion and language. What would be the Congress's major election issues? The major issues would be, of course, political stability and also secularism. The very basis of Indian society, its democracy and pluralism depend on its secular character. If India does not remain secular, the very existence of the society and its composite culture would be seriously threatened. Therefore, secularism will also be an important ingredient in the campaign. The third aspect on which we would like to emphasise would be the need for development and progress. Without development, we would not be able to tackle the people's problems. And the people's problems cannot be resolved unless there is a stable government. So stability, secularism and development would be the major issues in this election. What would be the thrust of the campaign? Would Sonia Gandhi's entry into the electoral arena be the campaign's focal point? What do you mean by the thrust of the campaign? The campaign takes place through Congress workers spread all over the country. Sonia Gandhi's participation in the campaign will surely add an impetus to the campaign. But the campaign is to be built up by Congress workers. How big a role would Rajiv Gandhi's assassination and the Jain Commission findings play in the election? That is also an important aspect. Why did this government collapse? This government collapsed as they refused to comply with the Congress's demand for the exclusion of the DMK ministers. The DMK is a party which has been indicted by the Jain Commission interim report. Therefore, the issue will definitely have its impact and will be an important issue in this election. What is the impact of the Congress exodus on the party's chances of coming back to power? That takes place normally during the election. People come and people go. So there is nothing new in it. And those who have left, except one or two, have no mass following. So their presence or their departure wouldn't materially affect the party. Some of them are known for their frequent hopping from one party to another. So I don't think it would have any adverse impact so far as the party is concerned. The BJP's prime ministerial candidate, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, has said that more than the defections the Congress's mass base has been eroded. What is your assessment? It is not correct. During the last election, we got 30 per cent of the popular votes, which is an indication of the mass base. Though the BJP got 161 seats, they had only 20 per cent of the votes. The Congress came first or second in 360 constituencies, compared to the BJP's 260. Therefore, it would be incorrect to say that the Congress's mass base has been eroded. Yes, there has been some erosion. In parliamentary elections some times it happens. In the past, we have seen that the Congress has always revived and bounced back after a temporary setback. How are you going to tackle the BJP in the Hindi heartland? In the Hindi heartland -- that is Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and Punjab -- where the BJP has substantial presence, state-wise positions show that we would be able to tackle the saffron party. In Bihar, we have an alliance with the RJD and in Punjab with the BSP which should be formidable. In Haryana, the Congress is strong enough and same is the story in Rajasthan. In Madhya Pradesh, we are the incumbent government. Of course, we are relatively weak in Uttar Pradesh. Talks are going on and some sort of seat adjustment is possible with like-minded secular parties. But it has not yet materialised.... Therefore, I don't think that the BJP will have a cakewalk in these states. What are your parties's prospects in the east and in the south? The BJP has hardly any presence in the south. Their anxiety to have an alliance with Telugu Desam-NTR leader Lakshmi Sivaparvathi and All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazagham leader Jayalalitha demonstrates how shaky the party is. They have no presence in the south or the east or the north-east. They are pathetically trying to catch hold of some breakaway groups, like a drowning man trying to grab some straw. Somewhere they are entering into adjustments with Mamata and Biju Janata Dal leader Naveen Patnaik... These pathetic efforts clearly demonstrate that the BJP is not sure of its own position. So I don't think that either in the south or the east, the BJP would be able to improve its position. The last Congress government headed by P V Narasimha Rao was allegedly involved in many scams. Don't you think that corruption is a major issue for the Congress? Corruption is an issue. We have dealt with it in the manifesto. But I am sorry to say that these scams are not confined to the Congress or the Congress government alone. There are so many scams. So many leaders of various political parties are involved in them. So it would be too simplistic to say that the Congress government was involved in scams. What is happening in Assam now? Which party does that chief minister belong to? But does that absolve your party of corruption charges? Not at all. What did we say… that corruption is there and we have to fight it. The law will take its own course. But can you show me one example of any other political party which has an in-built mechanism within the party to tackle recalcitrant elements? How many top Congress leaders were dropped from their offices whenever there was some suspicion against them starting from the 1950s or 1960s? I won't mention the names. But is it not a fact that a person expelled from the Congress because of undesirable activities is welcomed by other political parties? Therefore, it would be incorrect to say that people consider the Congress as a party of the corrupt or that the earlier Congress government was scam-tainted. Such an image is being thrust upon the party. Here I want to underline a point. Take the case of Laloo Prasad Yadav and Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Kalyan Singh. The BJP made a song and dance when the CBI wanted to file a chargesheet against Laloo Prasad Yadav. The same BJP, sorry the same media, was silent when a person, not only chargesheeted but sentenced for imprisonment for contempt of court, was made the UP chief minister. And the media described him as a legislative hero because he was responsible for causing largescale defections to get an artificial majority. So for the same thing, somebody is condemned and someone else is being complimented as a legislative hero. What can you do? This is the double standard which a section of the media is having. If they were objective, they wouldn't have hailed Kalyan Singh as a legislative hero. How far is this double standard going to affect your party's chances in the election? I won't say the entire media keeps double standards. It is only a section of it and that is mainly because of the RSS's disinformation campaign. They are responsible; they believe in the Geobbelsian theory that a lie repeated a hundred or thousand times would appear as truth. That can influence the people for some time. We became a victim of that in 1977 and in 1989 and another attempt is being made now. Now that you have referred to 1977, do you justify the Emergency? It is not a question of the Emergency… but the so-called excesses which were being projected through the RSS's disinformation campaign. The disinformation campaign was responsible for our defeat. Otherwise, how would you explain the Congress's clean sweep on the other side of the Vindhyas? We got 27 out of the 28 Lok Sabha seats in Karnataka, 41 out of 42 in Andhra Pradesh, 25 seats alone and with the allies all the seats in Tamil Nadu and a clean sweep in Kerala. How do you explain this? Was the Emergency confined only to the north? Only one reason: the RSS's disinformation campaign was effective only in the north. It didn't exist in the south. There were a lot of stories. When these people came to power, they announced that all those who were victims of the family planning programme would be financially rewarded. How many people were rewarded? The Congress became the victim of their disinformation. We had talked about the scams during the Rao government, do you feel there was lack of transparency in the economic liberalisation process? I don't think there was any lack of transparency. You cannot generalise things based on individual misdemeanour and link it with the government or the party. Individual misdemeanour is to be treated individually as per the law of the land. There are instances of individual misdemeanour and the law is taking its course. All those matters are sub judice and it would be treated as per the law of the land. Do you approve of prime ministers coming into Parliament through the Rajya Sabha? There is nothing wrong in it. The Constitution says the prime minister should be a member of either of the two Houses, there is nothing wrong in it. Will you contest the election this time? No. If the Congress wins, who would be the prime minister? Sonia Gandhi, Sitaram Kesri or Pranab Mukherjee? The Congress Parliamentary Party will decide who would be their leader. If the party gets the majority, then whoever is the CPP leader would be the prime minister. You had a very great rapport with Narasimha Rao. Do you still continue with your relationship? Of course. We are personal friends and I have great respect for him. He is an erudite person with a clear concept of matters. And he gave a good government for five years. I am sure that history will judge him in a much better manner than what the people think about him now.
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