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The Rediff Interview/Bishop V Devasahayam

The Tamil Nadu government's ordinance to ban conversions has stirred a hornet's nest, with both Christian and Muslim educational institutions closing schools on October 24 as a first step in protest.

Will Christians lose public support because of this? Are political parties hopping on to the bandwagon to preserve their vote banks? Bishop V Devasahayam from the Madras Diocese of the Church of South India, took time off from planning the agitation to speak to A Ganesh Nadar.

You met the chief minister this week. What was the meeting about?

We told her that there were enough laws in the land to prevent forcible conversion and we did not need another, particularly at a time when religious polarisation is taking place. She told us that the ordinance was not targeted against any particular community and would apply to fundamentalists in the majority community too.

We explained to her that a man might come to me today and say he wants to convert. Two days later, he can go to the police station and say that he was forced [into conversion]. And the police can call not only me but everybody here and question them.

The ordinance talks about people --- directly and indirectly --- involved in conversion. That could mean anybody and everybody. We told her that POTA [the Prevention of Terrorism Act] was misused in Gujarat, where it was used only to arrest people of a particular community who were themselves victims of violence. We told her that we were more worried about its misuse than its use. She said, "It happens in politics too. Some people from another party come and join our party in my presence. Two days later they announce that I forced them."

We pointed it out that politics is public life, you don't have a penal provision there for party changers. Religion is personal, but you are making penal provisions here. She didn't reply to this. She says it will not be misused, but what is the guarantee?

Vaiko supported POTA and see where he is now.

The law is about forcible conversion, and if there are no forcible conversions, as you claim, then why are you so worried?

We say that forcible conversion is a sin. We are objecting to the wording of the law. The words are such that they can be misinterpreted in any way.

Inducement could mean anything. If I say that God will be displeased with you, then I can be prosecuted. Secondly, if somebody comes and voluntarily converts to Christianity, it is up to him to publish it in the gazette or he might choose not to. Now the priest has to go and register it with the local magistrate. You think we have no other work than to go and stand in front of the local magistrate every time we baptise someone? The entire church community can be harassed.

The anti-conversion law already exists in three other states. Why are you making so much of it in Tamil Nadu?

There are laws in those three states, but there has not been a single conviction in any of those states. Political parties use religion for mobilising the masses. They have to project themselves as the protector of the majority's right. And so they need an enemy. So they make us the enemy. She [Jayalalithaa] is rekindling an issue and a law that has not been used in any of the three states where it exists.

The dalits are in a position where they have no entry and no exit. They cannot enter Hindu temples and cannot enter the church. Maybe in big temples they are allowed in, but in small villages they are not. So now this will spread terror among dalits. They will get scared to convert. This is aimed against them.

What is your next course of action?

Today [October 24] we are having a conference to express our views. It will start with a prayer in the morning. The teachers in our institutions wanted to participate in the prayer fast, so we have told them to close schools for a day. We have made it very clear that the holiday will be compensated by working on another day.

We are not involving the students in this agitation. We teach students secularism. They will know that the closure is for secular reasons.

Don't you think you will lose the goodwill of the public if you close down schools?

Last week you closed down schools for the Cauvery water. So why not now? And we are going to make up by working on another day.

So many political leaders are coming to your conference. They are coming because they have an axe to grind with Jayalalithaa. Why are you allowing them to convert this into a political platform?

We know that politicians use every opportunity to promote themselves and their issues. When this ordinance came out, various leaders gave press statements condemning it. We went to thank them and at the same time told them that we are holding a conference where they can express what they have already said.

We will not allow any party to hijack our issue. But as long as they support us, why not take their support? As it is, we feel that this ordinance has a political motive, the motive being that of the Sangh Parivar. So we too are fighting it politically.

The Christians are apolitical. Only in the last election we chose to support the secular front. We wanted the AIADMK to win. We have traditionally supported the ruling party because we have many social activities in collaboration with the government. We need the ruling party always. We will not be led into party politics.

Doesn't it bother you that you are treated as a vote bank by all parties?

We have not formed a political forum. We never ask our people to vote for anyone. But now we think that we might have to take part in politics too, to fight fundamentalism.

You think the caste system practised by Hindus is the cause of conversion?

Salvation must involve social emancipation. The denial of equality does play a role.

Are you saying that there are no caste barriers in Christianity?

Unfortunately, no, I cannot say that. But in Christianity, untouchability is a sin. We call it adharma, the Hindus call it dharma. We are ashamed of it. In Hinduism it is a virtue. It is not as severe as it is in Hinduism and it is never praised in Christianity. We do not accept untouchability.

Is there an anti-minority wave throughout the country?

There is no anti-minority wave. There is propaganda by the Sangh Parivar. What the Sangh and its affiliated wings do is not a national wave. In Gujarat there was a state-sponsored genocide. People were brought in from outside to create trouble. You cannot call that a people's wave.

What do you fear the most?

In the name of terrorism laws are enacted to terrorise people, and that's what scares me the most. The terrorist won't get scared, but the innocent people do get scared. As POTA has scared our politicians, this law will scare the minorities. After Vaiko was arrested, all others are scared to speak. We are thankful that the chief minister invited us for talks. We know that one meeting cannot solve the problem. We know that it takes time to germinate and bear fruit, and so we hope that there will be future talks and there will be a solution.

Image: Dominic Xavier; Photograph: A Ganesh Nadar

The Rediff Interviews