The Rediff Interview/ Pramod Mahajan

'Where is the deal?'

Union Minister Pramod Mahajan spoke to Senior Editor Sheela Bhatt about the government's response to the defence scandal on Wednesday evening, in a taperecorded interview.

How confident is the government after Tuesday's revelations by Tehelka.com?

Frankly, if you go through the website -- I am not talking about the video clippings -- for debate's sake, I have yet to see what defence deal the Vajpayee government has exactly struck, where corruption took place. Nobody is answering my counter-question, which deal are they talking about? There was no deal which was struck or was under process. Party functionaries are not government leaders to discuss defence deals. The maximum mileage one can give them is that much. Since no deal has been talked about, nothing has been exposed.

Tehelka wanted to expose the manner in which defence deals are struck in this country.

They wanted to sell the camera, so they were talking to party functionaries. No minister has talked to them. In that case, I can say in principle a deal was discussed. Here, where is the deal?

Party officials allegedly took money to help strike a deal.

There is no defence deal. Nothing has been given. The country has not lost money, nothing has been purchased. The country has not purchased any equipment which we should not have (had). So there is no commission involved. Where is the deal? There is no deal.

There could not be a deal because that company was not competent to strike a deal. Journalists played fake arms dealers. They can't sell toy guns, right? Whatever credit one would give to this exposure -- if I use a charitable expression -- is that they might have shown the vulnerability of some important political leaders.

Whatever you say, people are shocked to see the video footage.

I can only say this is a sad situation. While answering your question, I spoke about the government's response. But even I am not only a government leader, I am a party leader also. So if somebody in the party at any level, small or big, has been made so vulnerable because of some discussion, that makes all of us sad. The government has not done anything which it should not have.

Is the government confident of containing the fallout of Tehelka's expose?

Confidence is not the proper word. We are confident about facing up to the challenge. Frankly, we are used to allegations in the print media, we are just not used to the allegations of the electronic media. So,anybody who sees political leaders taking notes, what the notes were, what they were meant for are points that can be explained logically and rationally. And it will be explained. But emotionally people were very, very shocked. I am not surprised.

The issue raised is very serious -- the corruption in the defence establishment.

I agree this is an issue. (George) Fernandes has been defence minister since 1998; this March 19 he will complete three years (as minister). Defence purchases are going on in the country since 1947. Defence equipment purchases have a history of 53 years out of which Fernandes has been minister for 3 years.

I am not making any comparative study. I am just pointing out that he is the first defence minister who says 'I am opening my files for the CVC (Chief Vigilance Commissioner) and CAG (Comptroller and Auditor General) to verify.' Without anyone asking he kept the cut-off line of 1985. Should not it be taken as his honest drive to get rid of arms dealers and the corruption from his ministry? Or should we think the other way round?

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