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The Rediff Interview/ Dr M S Swaminathan

'53 years after Independence, we have still about one-third of India without drinking water'

Who else is better to talk about the drinking water problem, drought and water management than Dr M S Swaminathan, the man behind the Green Revolution. Twenty-one years back, he had submitted a monsoon management policy to the Janata Party government. Unfortunately, even now, India doesn't know how to manage its monsoon and water, even though it gets adequate rain.

Dr Swaminathan had returned from Holland after receiving the Franklin D Roosevelt Four Freedoms Medal, when Shobha Warrier met him for an interview at the Dr M S Swaminathan Research Foundation.

It's more than 50 years since Independence and women still have to walk several kilometres to collect water. What went wrong? Is it lack of planning, faulty implementation or lack of will?

It is a combination of all. There is a lack of sense of priority for water, particularly drinking water, and also lack of concern for problems women face. Somehow, in gender-determined roles, our women have been given the responsibility of fetching water, fuel wood and fodder. This is an artificially created gender differentiation by man. Problems of women have not received attention or priority because men dominated Parliaments. Twenty years back, at the J P Naik lecture, I had said that if men were carrying water, probably this would have received greater attention.

Do you really believe so?

Yes. Men wonder about what women do at home. Are they not sitting idle? Are they not just cooking, bringing water and washing clothes? Women do unpaid, unsung and unrecognised work. Only now, in panchayats, one-third seats are reserved for women.

We hope it will make some difference in priorities at the village level.

Drinking water has been on the agenda under a Minimum Needs Programme. Obviously, it is a minimum need. But, Rajiv Gandhi was the first to give it a sense of direction and priority by starting a drinking water mission, to ensure all that villages get safe drinking water. Now, it is called the Rajiv Gandhi Drinking Water Mission.

Remote sensing was used by the mission. We have one of the finest space research organisations in the world, and we have enormous capacity in space applications. Through remote sensing, one can spot areas where there is water. For the first time, mapping was done.

It is really sad that 53 years after Independence, we have still about one-third of India without drinking water. Even where there is drinking water, its quality is bad.

A study by the New Delhi-based Centre for Science and Environment says that clean drinking and cooking water for all in India can be collected from an area half the size of Delhi.

Yes. We have enough rainfall in our country. The whole country gets an average of 1300 mm. Even if half is conserved, we can have more than enough drinking water. In fact, Maharashtra Governor Dr P C Alexander reminded an audience recently in Bombay: ''Swaminathan and I were asked by Indira Gandhi to produce a new 20-point programme in 1980, after she returned to power. Then, Swaminathan told her that the first point should be rain water harvesting and irrigation of dry land." Twenty years back, the first point in the programme was rain harvesting!

In 1979, you had drawn up a monsoon management policy.

(Laughs) I am happy today because newspapers say that at last the government has set up a secretaries committee to take pro-active action on various monsoon possibilities. They have taken my words "pro-active action on different monsoons" from an interview.

We have an excellent meteorological department and experts like Sulochana Gadgil, C R V Rama Naik. So, the government should make use of the talent and technology.

What happened to your policy?

The problem is that bureaucrats run most of our administration, and their memory is very poor. Fortunately, I codified everything and got it printed. But now they are finding it difficult to get a printout too! It was done over 21 years ago! (Laughs) The problem is that secretaries are often changed and there is no continuity. One day, he will be the law secretary and soon he will become environmental secretary. By the time he learns about environment, he is moved to law and order. We are stuck with the most archaic system of administration. Basically, they are intelligent. I have nothing against individuals. In this 21st century, we have complex problems, and this is not the way to run a country. It is very sad.

C Subramaniam was a successful minister because he chose the right people for right work at the right time. The prime minister or a minister may have ideas or a vision or goals, but to make them fructify he needs the help of people. I won't even blame the government. I blame the people. If they feel that they can solve the problem together, they will.

Implementation should be at the local level?

Yes. In Schedule 11 of Constitution Amendment 73, there are 29 items, including water; water harvesting and water management, to be transferred to panchayats.

If we give more power to local bodies, will the situation improve?

Not only power, we have to give them three other things too. You must empower them with technological skills. In each village panchayat, let us select a woman and a man -- monsoon managers or climate managers -- train them and empower them with knowledge of water conservation and water management. They can pass the knowledge to others in the village.

We have such knowledge centres in villages. Every morning, fisherwomen in Veerampattinam village get information on conditions at sea from the United States Navy. They get the exact picture of conditions. There are loudspeakers all over the village, and the moment they get the picture, they announce it for the benefit of all fishermen. They announce that after 20 metres, the tide will be one metre high, after 50 metres, it will be five metres high... It is marvellous to see how they work and how empowered they are.

We must first empower them with knowledge and skills. Then you must empower them legally and financially. All these should go with responsibility

The other problem in our country is that our memory is bad. When we have drought, we talk and write a lot about it. But once there's rain, everything is forgotten. If prepared, we can minimise the adverse impact. In this country, there is enough ground water, enough rain and enough water to drink.

In your 1979 monsoon management plan, you had identified groundwater sanctuaries, which you said were for emergencies only. What exactly are groundwater sanctuaries?

I was travelling a lot those days. I was secretary, agriculture, and we had Charan Singh's interim ministry at the Centre. It was an election year. My minister told me, 'Swaminathanji, we have to fight elections. So, you fight the drought.' (Laughs) He gave me a free hand to fight drought. I knew that if something goes wrong or if 200 people die, I will be held responsible. I was in charge of disaster management too.

Drinking water was the most difficult problem during such calamities. Besides human beings animals too suffer. Therefore, in chronically drought-prone areas, with remote sensing, I decide to identify a good aquifer or groundwater. Then I tell all people not to tap it. If you go to a wildlife sanctuary, you are not allowed to poach or shoot. It is a sanctuary. So, when I called them groundwater sanctuaries, the groundwater people were a little upset. I used the word 'sanctuary' because it is a place of sanctity. It is a source of water and I did not want them to use it, except in case of an emergency. It is like saving money for old age. Savings are used only when needed. Similarly, I wanted groundwater to be saved and not exploited. Sanctuaries can be opened immediately in an emergency, as they are mapped.

Are we not over-exploiting our groundwater sources? A study had revealed that every year, our ground water is reducing by several metres.

Yes, it is over-exploited. There is no regulation. We are committing ecocide, or ecological suicide. Punjab has been committing it for five years by giving free electricity to pump water. It is over-exploiting ground water. This is an irresponsible policy. Industries also use a lot of water without recycling it. Every drop of water industry uses should be given back. It is all because we do not have a Groundwater Act to check over-exploitation.

How can we end over-exploitation?

You need well-informed public, public opinion and the media. A lot of criticism has come on the media handling of drought. There are two types of media interest. The media is always interested in famines. Suddenly, there is a big famine, and they are interested, but they are not interested in chronic hunger. Everyday, millions go to bed under-nourished. Endemic hunger is not media news!

Similarly, the media has not taken the same interest in water.

Yes, it is true that once the monsoon starts, the media and crisis managers forget all about drought.

They will go to another issue! I don't blame the media too. I blame our people, our government. There is so much capacity but we are not willing to undertake a long-term, sustained strategy, which takes into account every emergency; like a good general. What happened in Sri Lanka? They did not anticipate Elephant Pass to be taken over. They were taken by surprise. But Tiger chief Prabhakaran is a very good strategist.

Our meteorological department forecasts rainfall. Can't it predict drought too? The Indian government reacted to the recent drought as if it was unexpected. Should it not have thought about it? Did it become complacent after experiencing good rain for 12 years?

Of course, it should have thought about it. Every monsoon cannot be normal. We have been lucky to have 12 good monsoons. This year too, they say we are going to have good monsoon. It is not only in India, but all over the world, that there are droughts. There could be a drought anywhere; there could be El Nino. El Nino affected many parts of the world. There were huge forest fires in Indonesia because of its effect.

Chirapunje suffers from drinking water shortage in summer. Madras depends solely on the northeast monsoon for drinking water but when it gets good rain, it does not utilise it properly. And, now, we have a severe drinking water shortage. Is it not lack of proper planning by the authorities?

We have not done any planning. We fight for water, but we have not developed a long-term management strategy. Since our water largely comes from the monsoon, we need a monsoon management strategy.

Firstly, you have to understand the monsoon. We have data of monsoons for 100 years. With computer-simulated modules, we can classify it, and then you can have a point and a counterpoint. Checkmate it. Then, you decide how to maximise production and how to harvest the water, if there's a monsoon on time. And, if the monsoon is going to be delayed, what are you going to do? You can have different kinds of crops.

Divide water management into domestic consumption, agriculture, industry and eco-system management, that is the forests. Forests also require water. When you have all possibilities, why don't you prepare, using available data?

In Adelaide in Australia and Israel, every house harvests rainwater. They use solar power extensively. Here also, individuals have done it. But how do you make it a movement?

A success story from Dewas in Madhya Pradesh was reported recently. Due to the efforts of the district collector, several houses harvested rainwater last year and for the first time, they didn't face water shortage this year.

Digvijay Singh has been very good in social mobilisation. Three things are needed. One is some kind of regulation. For example, in the case of groundwater, we must have a Groundwater Act. Second is education, as regulation alone will not do. Third is social mobilisation through gram sabhas and panchayats.

In fact, Yashwant Sinha, in his last Budget speech called 1999 as the Year of the Gram Sabha, but he forget about it later! This is the problem in this country. Sustainable development is possible only with sustained effort and not sporadic effort. How do you generate sustained effort? That is where the media can play a crucial role. Being a watchdog, the media can remind people about promises.

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