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The Rediff Interview/Bishop Ezra Sargunam

A dispute over the ownership of a church pitchforked Chindiya, a small village in south Gujarat, into the news.

A few months ago, a local adivasi and converted Christian Puniyabhai Ukadia reconverted to Hinduism. Puniyabhai claims when he was a Christian, he had allowed his home to be used as a church. After reconversion, he refused to do so. However, some local Christians did not acknowledge Puniyabhai's claim to the property.

The property tussle came into the limelight when the vice-president of the Tamil Nadu Minorities Commission, Bishop Ezra Sargunam rushed to the village. He was prevented by local authorities from entering the 'church' because by then Puniyabhai had moved the court.

The bishop sat on a dharna opposite the 'church.' When his health deteriorated he was shifted to the Surat civil hospital. Meanwhile, the Gujarat government wrote to the Tamil Nadu chief minister and asked M Karunanidhi to tell the bishop to return, stating that the situation in Chindiya had become sensitive.

Vikram Vakil spoke to the bishop just before he left for Gandhinagar to meet Gujarat Chief Minister Keshubhai Patel.

The Gujarat government is blaming you for disturbing the peace in south Gujarat. Why did you rush all the way from Chennai to Chindiya?

I am the bishop of the Evangelist Church of India. We have 1,300 churches spread all over the country. The church in Chindiya is one of them. We have worshipped in the Chindiya church since 1993. The church building was built in 1996. A fund of Rs 200,000 was made available from our side.

The trouble was started by people of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. The land of the church was given to some eight people by a Parsi gentleman few years ago. The claim by Puniyabhai that this property belongs to him is not true. On November 26, 2000, at around 10 pm, some 400 people raided the church and ransacked the building. They broke the cross and wrote 'Jai Shri Ram' on the wall. They put up pictures of Ram, Hanuman and Krishna on the wall.

I was informed about this in Madras on November 27 and I arrived here on the 29th. When I went to the Chindiya church there was a large crowd gathered outside the church and the district collector was present. I told them to let me enter the church and pray. The authorities allowed me to do so.

When I went inside I saw the picture of some goddesses. When I tried to take away the pictures, the policemen dragged me and threw me out of the church. The people who have worshipped in the church for the last seven years were angry because their rights had been denied. They started praying outside the church.

Does the police have any right to stop me from worshipping in the church? Why is the entire government machinery behind one man? Why is this government machinery not helping the people of the Narmada valley? The dam-affected people of the Narmada dam are not getting proper rehabilitation. What treatment are you giving those people?

Did you receive any harsh treatment from the Gujarat authorities?

No. In fact the collector and the police were very apologetic. They said they were doing this because of instructions from higher authorities. When I went on fast, former chief minister Amarsinh Chaudhary and his wife came to meet me and assured me all possible help.

On the sixth day of my fast I was shifted to the civil hospital. The chief minister of Tamil Nadu called and asked me to end the fast. So far, to my knowledge, they are not allowing Puniyabhai to enter the church.

But Puniyabhai claims the church used to be his home.

Look at the structure of the premises. This is a church. Can anyone call this an Adivasi house? We have all the documents of the funds we spent on the church. The Britishers left three structure of power: The government, the bureaucracy and the judiciary. In Gujarat there is one more structure -- the VHP.

I am accused of creating a law and order problem. But why would I resort to that? I came here for peace. People who created the problem by ransacking the church are not arrested, but we are chargesheeted. A democratic system does not exist in Gujarat.

I am going to complain to the Gujarat chief minister that every citizen of India has a right to worship. How can you deny him that right? The government is creating the law and order problem.

But Puniyabhai has the documents to prove that the land belongs to him.

Another 16 people also claim that the land belongs to them.

Don't you think your presence will create tension?

I came here for a peaceful settlement. One Hindu sant from Bengal is staying here and spreading hatred. If he is being allowed to stay here, why can't I?

The Gujarat government claims the Tamil Nadu chief minister has called you back, but you are not doing so. Is it true?

It is true. I will not return before settling the issue.

Is this your first visit to south Gujarat?

No, I have been to south Gujarat several times for social and religious reasons. I find the people of Gujarat very secular and peace loving -- Patels, Baniyas, Brahmins come to me and say they are sorry this has happened.

Christian missionaries in this area are accused of converting poor Adivasis.

It is not true. Christians are running all the schools. We are serving the lowest of the lowest. Tell me, what harm has Christianity done that it is getting this kind of treatment?

What can the government do if the case is in court?

The government has so much free land. Why can't they give some land to Puniyabhai? It is very bad to hurt the religious feeling of people. I was told the attitude of this BJP government towards the minorities is very bad. This is very sad because I supported the NDA government during the last election.

I heard the police here are forcing the Christians to become Hindus. That is what I have heard.

What are your plans now?

If we arrive at a peaceful solution and if people are allowed to pray I will go back. Otherwise, this will became a huge international issue.

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