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The Rediff Interview/ S Jaipal Reddy

'Sharad Yadav and Ram Vilas Paswan have become leading vandalites'

We don't believe in entering the Guinness Book of World Records. We have our own Janata Dal Olympiad where all of us are hell bent on splitting the party as many times as possible. In 12 years, the Janata Dal has had split on nine different occasions. To my mind no other party can match our track record," says S Jaipal Reddy, in an interview with rediff.com contributor Onkar Singh.

Reddy ridiculed Ram Vilas Paswan and Sharad Yadav for joining hands with the Bharatiya Janata Party. "Leaders of the stature of Chandra Shekhar and Devi Lal went out of the party, but none of them joined hands with the BJP as has been done by these two. Secularism has been consigned to the fire and Mandalism put into a Kamandal," the former information minister said.

What is happening in the Janata Dal?

I think some kind of guessing game is going on in our party. We have had one more split in the last few days. This split is qualitatively different from the splits we had earlier on.

Look at Sharad Yadav and Ram Vilas Paswan. They were the leading secular leaders and foremost Mandalites. Now they have become leading vandalites.

What is the difference between the earlier splits and this split?

Earlier Chandra Shekhar left, Devi Lal left, George Fernandes and Nitish Kumar left, Ajit Singh left, Ramakrishna Hedge, they all left the party to float their own outfits but they did not join hands with the BJP.

George Fernandes formed the Samata party and contested the assembly election on his own before joining hands with the BJP. But Sharad Yadav and Paswan have left the Janata Dal to join hands with the National Democratic Alliance, which is led by the fundamentalist BJP.

Why there have been so many splits in the Janata Dal in the last 12 years? Are you trying to enter the Guinness Book of World Records?

We in the Janata Dal think nothing of the Guinness Book of World Records. We have our own Olympiad. We are all trying to break our own records by splitting the party as many times as possible. The more splits, the better it will be. Earlier, the Janata Dal split many times but each time the leaders who broke away stuck to the ideals for which they stood while they were in the party. But these leaders have bid goodbye to principles and joined hands with those who have none.

Did you have an idea that Karnataka Chief Minister J H Patel was staging a coup?

We knew talks were going on with Hedge and George Fernandes and we were waiting to welcome them back to our fold provided they severed their links with the NDA. But we did not know it would happen the other way round and our men would walk away and join hands with the NDA.

Patel always felt more at home with Hedge than he would do with Deve Gowda. Instead of coming with us they chose to stay where they were and Patel went out of his way to join hands with them.

Don't you think these leaders switched sides because they realised that after the Kargil crisis the people of India may vote for the BJP?

Kargil has nothing to do with their style of thinking. Sharad Yadav and Paswan had only one agenda. They would not join hands with Laloo Yadav at any cost. They have to fight elections from Bihar and they cannot fight Laloo on their own. Same goes with George Fernandes and Paswan. Patel and Deve Gowda have been at war for some time. It is because of their fight that the party has split this time.

You said the Janata Dal would have nothing to do with Laloo Yadav because of corruption charges against him. Now Deve Gowda is willing to join hands with Laloo Yadav. Why?

There is nothing permanent in politics. We have no personal enemies. We may differ politically, but personally we are friends. What is important for us to note is that Laloo Yadav has not given up his secular credentials. He is still against the BJP and the Janata Dal will welcome anyone who strengthens the hands of the secular parties. So far Deve Gowda has not met Laloo Yadav. But the two can meet in the near future. I don't rule that out.

Laloo has been accused in a particular case. These are personal charges. They have yet to be proved in a court of law. Deve Gowda may have had an unstable relationship with Laloo Yadav, but it is not his personal equation. These differences should matter less than ideological differences.

We did not ask Sharad Yadav or Paswan to join hands with Laloo Yadav. There was no compulsion. But this does not mean that we go and join hands with our main ideological adversary.

L K Advani ironically put it aptly: what the NDA could have done if Laloo Yadav had come to join hands with them. So according to him there is no difference between Laloo Yadav on one hand and Sharad Yadav and Paswan on the other. They have gone to the BJP's doors and the doors have been slammed on their faces. I would not like these two leaders to be humiliated like this.

Were you not against Laloo Yadav till yesterday?

I was never against Laloo Yadav and I even spoke openly in his favour. In my considered political opinion the threat posed by the BJP not only to the national secular fabric and even national integrity is far more important than all other issues.

Will Kargil be an issue at the general election?

Kargil will be an issue in the sense that the people of India want to know why the BJP government failed in detecting the intruders firmly entrenched in our bunkers while Vajpayee was enjoying his bus ride to Lahore. The Pakistanis have literally taken our prime minister for a ride. The government will have to explain the intelligence failure. Why did the government take time to take action against the intruders till the second week of May?

So you think the BJP stands to lose after the Kargil crisis?

Of course, the BJP will have a difficult time in explaining to the people its role in the Kargil crisis. The people of India cannot be misled by mere slogans that we have won the war. Why did the war begin in the first place, they are bound to ask.

Who do you think will the next prime minister of India be?

I am not into the guessing game. I leave this task for drawing room psephologists.

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