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The Rediff Interview/ Ram Vilas Paswan

'On one hand, you want to fight corruption and on the other you want join hands with the corrupt...'

It's a little ironical that one of the architects of the erstwhile United Front, Ram Vilas Paswan, is today a vehement opponent of recent moves to include the Rashtriya Janata Dal in the Third Front, the proposed modern equivalent of the UF.

Though opposition leaders have tried to bring Paswan around, the Janata Dal leader has remained adamant, asserting the Third Front's intentions to fight corruption would look ridiculous if Laloo Prasad Yadav, accused of the fodder scam, was allowed to be part of the front. On Tuesday, he quit all the Janata Dal organs in protest against the party's decision to vote against the motion on imposing President's rule in Bihar.

Paswan also feels President's rule is justified in Bihar and that the Janata Dal had even earlier demanded that Article 356 be implemented, if only to ensure the state did not go bankrupt. Excerpts from an interview with Tara Shankar Sahay:

Why did you stay away from the opposition parties' convention against communalism, widely seen as a prelude to the formation of a Third Front?

I had made it clear to Surjeetji [CPI-M leader Harkishan Singh Surjeet] and Bardhanji [CPI leader A B Bardhan] that I and our party leader Sharad Yadav would not attend the convention if the RJD was sought to be inducted. Ek taraf to aap bhrashtachari ke khilaf ladna chahate hain aur doosri taraf bhrashtachari ke saath saath milaana chahate hain. Yeh kaise ho sakta hai [On one hand, you want to fight corruption and on the other you want join hands with the corrupt. How can this be possible]. Sharadji and I are against it.

Your reference is to Laloo Prasad Yadav, isn't it?

Yes.

But the convention was still held, overriding your objections. How do you react to that?

I just told you that my fight against corruption can't be two-faced. As far as the struggle against communalism is concerned, I think it must be continued relentlessly until communal forces are removed from this country.

Is it wrong to say that your opposition to Laloo Yadav and his RJD stems from the fact that he beat you in the leadership tussle in the Janata Dal?

I am known as a leader of dalits, and I don't think I have to worry on that count. We had smooth party functioning until Laloo Yadav unfurled his plans to usurp leadership. Laloo's antics disgusted us. We saw in him the rise of a dictator. Subsequent developments proved our misgivings right. When Laloo Yadav was constrained to give up office as the Bihar chief minister, he ensured his wife succeeded him. What kind of politics is this? It shows that Laloo Yadav brooks no opposition and he ensures that his word is his partymen's command. That is exactly what we were against. That is why the Janata Dal was forced to split.

Laloo Yadav's supporters claim you and the Janata Dal party chief Sharad Yadav are insignificant in Bihar politics and that its chief is isolated in national politics. Please comment.

(Laughs) Kehna kuch aur baat hai aur karke dikhana kuch aur baat hai [Talking is one thing; doing is another]

What do you think about the imposition of President's rule in Bihar?

It's fully justified. We had earlier demanded that it be imposed in our state, which is being rendered bankrupt, thanks to the RJD's misrule. The Patna high court has said that Bihar is lawless and that jungle raj prevails. All this is because of the RJD state government.

Rabri Devi is a political novice, so it does not need a genius to figure out who is controlling her government. Laloo Yadav has a lot to answer for. Ab log uski baton mein nahin aane wale hain [ Now people will not be fooled by Laloo].

He has just declared in Patna that President's rule in Bihar is political conspiracy to oust an elected government and he has vowed that his party will return to power with an absolute majority. What do you think?

By placing his stooges in all areas of the government and bureaucracy, Laloo is trying to give it a democratic label. It's a travesty. If free and fair polls are held in Bihar, the RJD today will vanish. But Laloo has ensured that any election in the state is carried out under his peculiar brand of politics -- bludgeoning the opposition into submission and going to any extent to achieve his goal.

Sharad Yadav lost the parliamentary elections from the Madhepura Lok Sabha constituency. His main political rival was Laloo. Does that not prove Laloo Yadav's party cannot be challenged in Bihar?

Sharad Yadav had even planned a dharna after the elections because he knew Laloo's men had rigged them. The Election Commission did its best to ensure free and fair polls but Laloo still got the better of Sharadji through dubious means.

It is said that you too would have lost the parliamentary election from the Hajipur constituency but for help from the Samata Party?

But I won. Despite Laloo's best efforts to have me defeated, I won. The RJD leadership regularly threatens the electorate through goons to get them to vote for the RJD. This is what RJD's success story is about -- terrorising and intimidating people. I must also tell you that Laloo Yadav has sworn to get even with his foes, and I happen to be one of them.

If what you say is true, why are the former United Front constituency supporting the inclusion of the RJD in the Third Front? Even some of your senior party members attended the convention against communalism?

I have no quarrel with any non-RJD or non-Congress opposition leader, and I wish them the very best. But I must emphasise that Sharad Yadav and I have seen the RJD's misrule in Bihar and we know the ground realities in the state. In short, we have suffered because of the RJD's jungle raj in Bihar. So if we are apprehensive about Laloo Yadav and his party, it is only natural.

So why do you think the former UF constituents want to include the RJD in the proposed Third Front?

Please ask them. They will be able to answer your question.

Would this mean the former UF constituents prefer Laloo's RJD to the Sharad Paswan combine?

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