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The Rediff Interview/ L Ganesan

'Some may say BJP minus J is BP. BP is Better Party, Better Performance!'

Tamil Nadu Bharatiya Janata Party unit president K N Lakshmanan and general secretary L Ganesan called on Chief Minister and Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam president M Karunanidhi at his Gopalapuram home in Madras earlier this week, sparking speculation that the two parties are trying to work out a deal to save the Atal Bihari Vajpayee government.

No sooner had Karunanidhi clarified that the meeting held no political significance, more rumours about a possible tie-up were in the air.

This time about Union Information and Broadcasting Minister Pramod Mahajan's 'move' to moot the chief minister to seek his support for the Bharatiya Janata Party-led government at the Centre. This too was denied by the DMK, which has five Lok Sabha members.

But, considering the fluid political situation, rumour mills continue to work overtime, thanks to the BJP's desperation for newer allies.

However, Ganesan revealed no nervousness or panic when Rediff On The NeT's Shobha Warriermet him for an exclusive interview.

All the BJP leaders are confident about winning a possible no-confidence motion against the Atal Bihari Vajpayee government. How can you be so confident? From where are you going to get the numbers?

No-confidence motion on what? It all depends on the issue of the motion. If the motion is on the Vishnu Bhagwat issue, all the parties that are concerned about the nation will definitely support Vajpayee.

What about the Congress? They are asking for a Joint Parliamentary Committee probe.

The Congress will not go to the extent of moving a no-confidence motion. It is different to move a no-confidence motion on something else. If they are really interested in the nation, let me ask, what is the alternative? Is there any other party which can form a government now? The Communist parties are interested only in toppling the government. They don't care about the country because they want only confusion to prevail. Can the Congress behave like that? People expected the Congress to behave like a responsible Opposition party. And when there is no alternative, it may lead to fresh elections, which no member of Parliament is prepared to face.

So, you expect the MPs from the Opposition camp also to support you?

The MPs who are not prepared to face another election immediately will vote in support of Vajpayee. Even on the Bihar issue, we scored 29 votes more than expected. This time we will get more than that.

The other day, Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy claimed that 72 MPs from the BJP would cross over to the other side.

It is a big joke! So far, history has shown that nobody from the BJP can be bought. The reason is, all the members of the BJP are ideologically oriented. Even during the Janata period, Raj Narain and Charan Singh wanted to take away members from the BJP, but all the 92 MPs from the Jan Sangh -- there was no BJP then -- stood together.

How can you be so confident about the Opposition members when your own ally, the National Conference is still undecided?

One thing you should accept. Swamy is bluffing. The reality is we still have, what we already had, but minus the 18 AIADMK members. But as far as the Congress is concerned, they have only 18+1 extra. All the other political parties are undecided.

What about Samajadwadi Party chief Mulayam Singh Yadav, Rashtriya Janata Dal president Laloo Prasad Yadav and the Left parties?

They still have not decided. Nobody has decided so far. They want to know who will be the prime minister if a new combination emerges. Mulayam Singh thinks he is the fittest person to be the prime minister. Laloo also can become, god forbid, the prime minister! There is also a rumour that J Jayalalitha wants to be the prime minister.

Former prime minister (H D) Deve Gowda thinks that god has blessed him now because of all the yagnas that he has performed. So, there are so many contestants there. So, that has to be decided first.

Did you expect these kinds of problems from Jayalalitha when you had clinched an alliance with her?

See, last time we could rule only for 13 days. We got defeated then. So, we tried to make more friends this time before the elections because we didn't want that to happen again. Then Jayalalitha came forward. Jayalalitha came forward to make Atalji the prime minister.

Did she take the initiative?

The question is not who took the initiative. We had also sent feelers and it was mutual. So, when Jayalalitha came forward, the other parties like the MDMK (Marumalarchi Dravida Munnetra Kazagham), PMK (Pattali Makkal Kattchi) and TRC (Tamizagha Rajiv Congress) also came forward. At that time, we thought we would be successful in the elections. We never thought that we would not get the magic number. Naturally, we had to depend upon the alliance partners a lot. We had to adjust to the coalition politics too. You cannot say that it is not mutually beneficial in a coalition. We expected all the coalition partners to adopt a coalition dharma.

In India, decisions are taken either by the majority or by consensus. Power to veto has not been given to any organisation. At least a government is not run on that basis.

For example, the Bhagwat issue was discussed in the (BJP-led coalition's) co-ordination committee and a decision was taken. The moment she came out of the committee meeting she said she agreed with the decision. But later, after meeting Sonia Gandhi, she changed her stand. Sonia Gandhi might have instigated Jayalalitha to rake up the issue again. I don't know what had happened. So, after agreeing in a meeting, you cannot defy it. That's what (Union Parliamentary Minister P R) Kumaramangalam said.

It was after Kumaramangalam's reaction that she became aggressive.

You cannot say that. I will tell you. Jayalalitha meeting Sonia Gandhi is an ordinary thing. Having a cup of tea is also an ordinary thing. But it became extraordinary only after Jayalalitha described her meeting with Sonia Gandhi as a 'political earthquake'. It was she who started everything. The earthquake was also started by Jayalalitha. She gave a warning to the BJP too. Do you mean to say that the BJP, even after being warned by Jayalalitha, will not take caution? What Kumaramangalam said was right. In a democracy, you have to accept the majority decision. Otherwise, you walk out. There is nothing wrong in saying that.

In fact, the person who knew that there was going to be an earthquake was not prepared to face the earthquake. That is the problem.

You mean, she was not prepared.

No. Why did you then react to Kumaramangalam? You should not have reacted. These were the results of the earthquake and you have to adjust to that. Ultimately who is going to be affected by the earthquake? Definitely not the BJP. The BJP will come out very successfully.

You are very confident?

Yes, I am very confident. Vajpayee did a very clever move, you know. When Jayalalitha put forward three demands to the prime minister and asked him to reply within a reasonable time, instead of replying on his own, he made the national executive of the party to pass a resolution replying to her demands. Not only that, he had convened a Cabinet meeting and the Cabinet has unanimously replied to Jayalalitha that there was no question of meeting her demands. Now all our partners are with us. Other than these 18 members, all the others are with us.

Once they leave, you are short of majority. What are you going to do then?

Immediately after the elections, when the hangover of the elections remained, Vajpayee would not have been successful. But it is a different matter now. Even when the Bihar and many other issues came, other parties like the Telugu Desam Party came forward to help Vajpayee. After seeing Vajpayee's rule for one year, people are convinced that this is the best rule that we have had in the recent times. Prices are coming down. It happened only during the Janata period. After that, this is the first time that prices are coming down. Housewives are happy now.

Yes, prices have come down. What about the prices of onions, potatoes and tomatoes, which skyrocketed a few months back?

That was all because of the policies of the previous government. So, when Vajpayee is ruling in a better way, it is not good for any party to topple him. Naturally, if a no-confidence motion is moved in Parliament, the well-wishers in the other parties will support us, and there are a quite a few well-wishers for Vajpayee.

What do you say about the attacks on the minorities and the religious institutions? Have they not affected the image of the government?

No, it is not true at all. Since 1947, we have had major communal clashes almost every year. The only year that we did not have any communal clash was 1998, after Vajpayee became the PM. The attacks, which occurred in some remote places, are exceptions and they were blown out of proportions by vested interests.

Talking about the image of the government, let me ask you about Jayalalitha. You had always been appeasing her by sending emissaries to Poes Garden whenever she threw tantrums. Your emissaries waited outside to pacify her. Did it not affect the image of the BJP?

You have to accept one thing. We came together to fight the elections. Our alliance cannot be called an ideologically oriented one because ideologically we are not one. But after the elections, we didn't have the numbers to rule alone. So, the national agenda (for governance) was created and the government was functioning based on that. As we are ideologically not similar, clashes are bound to be there. Even between husband and wife, fights occur. Even brothers may quarrel but they live together.

''Vajpayee is a brahmachari. He might not have had the experience of dealing with women'

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