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The Rediff Interview/Kushabhau Thakre

'I totally disagree with what the President has said'

Shashikant 'Kushabhau' Thakre, president of the Bharatiya Janata Party and an old Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh hand, is credited with establishing the RSS in Madhya Pradesh.

With an assembly election in four states round the corner and various BJP allies threatening to withdraw support, he spoke to Amberish K Diwanji.

A few days ago, the Shiromani Akali Dal threatened to withdraw support to the BJP-led coalition government. Earlier, we had the antics of J Jayalalitha. Why do your allies keep complaining and threaten to withdraw support?

The BJP-led coalition government has a very narrow majority in the Lok Sabha. Thus, the various allies think that they are in a position to manoeuvre the government for their own needs. One can understand the need of each party to air its views, but when we are a coalition government, then everyone should tread carefully and correctly.

Has not the BJP a mechanism in place to smoothen out differences before they explode? Why has the coordination committee been ineffective or not met more often?

One reason for the coordination committee not meeting is that after taking office as ministers, the various party leaders have been very busy, going all over the country or abroad. You can hardly expect the party leaders to forego their ministerial responsibilities and meet. This is the price of government, but the coordination committee will meet when possible.

The Shiromani Akali Dal has been one of the BJP's staunchest allies. Yet, today, even it is complaining of having been taken for granted.

The Akali Dal has a complaint regarding the inclusion of Udham Singh Nagar in Uttaranchal. But the people of that district have expressed their desire to be part of the new state of Uttaranchal. Then how can we go against their wishes?

But the Akali Dal says the people of Udham Singh Nagar, many of whom are Sikh farmers, want to be remain part of Uttar Pradesh. So why not hold a referendum among the people?

You can hardly hold a referendum for every subject. Just because there is a difference in views is no reason to go in for a referendum. A referendum will create enmity among the people of that district, do you want that to happen? We don't want to pit the people against each other.

Why do you say that? And how can you be sure that your views are right?

(A trifle angrily) We have our process of ascertaining the people's views, we have been around for long and interacted with them. And we know that any referendum will divide the people further instead of resolving the dispute. We understand how the country works, and how the people think. From our people, we know that the people want to be with Uttaranchal. This is my view on the subject, so please don't argue further!

If any ally pulls out of the BJP government...

(Interrupting) First, it is not a BJP government, it is an alliance government of the BJP and other partners!

If any ally pulls out from the BJP-led alliance,does the BJP have any contingency plan to save the government?

They might be knowing it, you will have to ask the government that question. Maybe that is why they have spoken about it in the past.

Do you see the forthcoming assembly election as a vote of confidence on the BJP government at the Centre?

Not totally. There will be many issues at stake, some will concern the central government, some the state governments. But elections in just four states can hardly be a referendum on the central government. They do not even comprise one-fourth of India.

Rajendra Singh, the RSS chief, had at the annual Dasara rally in Nagpur, criticised the functioning of the Vajpayee government. What do you have to say to that?

It is his opinion, which he is an entitled to have. And he is a very well-known, well-respected leader of a great institution. I have nothing to say about it.

The BJP has some issues very close to its heart such as scrapping Article 370 of the Constitution, building a Ram temple at Ayodhya, etc. Whatever happened to them?

Right now, we cannot implement our party's policies on these issues because it is not on national agenda for governance (formulated by the BJP and its allies). It is a coalition government, and what we can get together and do, we will do, and what cannot be done will not be done. We will do what we can today, and even doing that much will be a lot.

But the VHP has threatened to go ahead and build the temple anyway...

(Interrupting) I am the president of the BJP, not of the VHP. I cannot answer on their behalf.

The question is, what will be the BJP's response to the VHP building a temple?

Let them do it! That is their job. I will do my job. I am committed to the agenda of the government, that is all.

What about the Swadeshi Jagran Manch's allegation that the BJP government is leaning towards liberalisation?

I don't think like that because the BJP is also a follower of Swadeshi (economic nationalism). We have faith in Swadeshi, and we think Swadeshi will be the only solution for the country. But what the government can do is limited. We are not writing on a clean slate, and therefore, we can write only where the space exists. It will take some time, but we cannot just follow 100 per cent of their (the WTO) agenda.

Are you planning to renegotiate with the WTO?

There are many aspects to it. However, many agreements have already been signed and they are fetters on us.

After the President sent back the Cabinet's recommendation on dismissing the Bihar government, you had said Bihar deserves to be under President's rule. Does this mean you think the President was wrong in his assessment?

Why do you want to use such words? Do not put all these words in my mouth! I totally disagree with what the President has said. In Bihar, the Constitution is not followed. You are not allowed to discuss any state governor's action in the legislature, and in the Bihar assembly, they are passing a resolution against the governor. They are abusing the President's nominee! What is this?

But then why did the Cabinet not send back the recommendation?

They thought if the President has sent it back, it would be better to accept his decision. After all, the President's position should also be respected.

What is your own opinion in this case?

In all this, I feel for Bihar, the agony of Bihar. In all this, we are only fighting a battle for full stop and comma, we have no concern for the people of Bihar. They are dying, their houses are being burnt, their women and children are being burnt, millions are being robbed in corruption and the investigative agencies cannot do anything... all these things are going on. And the issue has been politicised. There is no concern for the people of Bihar.

Tragically, all issues are now politicised in our country, without regard for the people. The Congress had time and again flayed the situation in Bihar, but it was against the Bihar government's dismissal. This just shows their duplicity and lack of concern. Strangely, the same Congress wanted the Uttar Pradesh government dismissed.

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