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The Rediff Election Interview/ Dr Manohar Singh Gill

'People think they know what troubles we had in the past with Seshan. They are wrong... And yes, Seshan laughs like hell'

What do you think about the size of the states, particularly when some states like Uttar Pradesh can make or mar a majority?

That is not something for me to discuss at election time. It is a political matter, and I have lot of views on it. But not today. I have views because I have been in the government for so long.

What is being done to help those who have to brave 'boycott calls' to exerise their franchise?

Efforts would be made. We have to prevent that. That is why all the time I am working on security forces, more forces, particularly in bad areas.

Another observation. In the last 50 years, the civil services have been damaged by the way they have been used or misused. Howevever, if the top civil servants stand clear and neutral, India can do anything on development and elections.

I have been making it clear to everybody that I will be -- and so will the EC -- focusing only on the senior people. In the last six weeks, we have sacked from field duty many collectors, commissioners and deputy inspector generals of police in six states. Wherever we had the slightest doubt, out he goes. We said we want a better man, and we got it.

Therefore I have been levelling the playing field -- and that is to remove undesirable senior officers. I don't have to worry about tehsildars. The collector should worry about them.

But we will sack the collector, and we have sacked many even before the election. During the election also we will do it. My colleagues and I are going all over the country. We are confident that with we will ensure a level playing field, a fair and peaceful election.

There has been an allegation that the voter identity card programme has been a huge flop. Do you think so?

Don't waste your time on voter identity cards now. It is not an issue just now. You can come back later.

Being the CEC you should also be anxious about the outcome of the poll.

No. We are not. We want everyone to play fair, have a clean election, have a fair election. And may the best party win. We are not worried... I only hope and pray to god that whoever comes in gives a good government to the country. So we have no favourites.

Can you really call India a vibrant democracy when people are really voting on the basis of symbols?

No, no. I want 100 per cent literacy in India. You know literacy alone is not wisdom and the Indian has plenty of wisdom. And we are political people -- we strongly watch and observe because in a poor country, sadly, the government still matters. More than in a developed country like America.

And our voters are more shrewd than all the English papers in Delhi and Bombay which are putting out all sorts of ideas. I don't buy them. I have been an English-type all my life, but I am also a villager. The Indian masses are going to decide. And only they know what they are going to decide.

Why not a switch over to the Presidential system?

It is a bigger debate, but I would be very worried. I don't like the idea of a billion people being ruled by one man, whoever he may be. And there are no such gods that you can bring to earth. I think a billion people are entitled to have a participative democracy. I want a share in the governance of India, so does everybody in Madras, in Mizoram and Nagaland.

Someone might be having this idea of a great man. And that is the trouble with Indians. They think that one great angel will take the country through. No, all of us together have to do that. I think Indian democracy is deep and the people like it.

Last time there was an allegation that the EC was counting the number of jeeps, posters and video taping the electioneering seriously.

Everybody has his style. I don't criticise the past. I never will. My style is different. The code of conduct has to be enforced forcefully. But it has also to be enforced intelligently, not in an absurd, legalistic or non-democratic manner. We are in relationship with a huge democratic system -- parties, candidates, people. And they are also celebrating democracy and they are doing something.

Imagine in an Indian parliamentary constituency, there are almost two million people. A candidate has to get to them in 15 days or three weeks time. I don't want to kill this democracy. I only want to prevent the misuse. That is all.

What about the caste factor? Though there is a bar on talking about caste and creed, even the Leftists field candidates on the basis of caste. What can you do about it?

The only solution to this is not in election laws, but in literacy and development.

Unless we create huge industries and bring about a change in the people's outlook, there is no solution. In Delhi, nobody is bothered about what your caste is. But if you live in your village, you are oppressed by your caste hierarchy. This can only be killed by literacy, development and mobility. That is a larger agenda for India and the 12th Lok Sabha, I hope.

Your style of functioning is said to be strict, but unobtrusive; vigilant, but not dramatic. How do you react?

Well, that is one description. I am not all that unobtrusive, but I do not believe in doing an ulta tandav. You are a south Indian, I think. Anybody who knows classical music and dance would know. In classical dance, ulta tandav karne ki zaroorat nahi hai. I don't wish to do it. My colleagues won't do it. The reason is very simple.

Yes, we will be firm but we will also be calm and steady because we are a very high constitutional body. Frankly, I have been placed much higher than I deserve.

The media has to forget this idea of focusing on individuals --whether Gill or his colleagues or anyone else. You can't entrust all the powers to an individual. So we have to balance and we are equal. And I am happy with that equality because we persuade each other. Nobody outside actually knows what our relationship is.

People think they know what troubles we had in the past with my friend Seshan. They are wrong. I will write my book later of what we did, how many laughs we had, how many jokes we cracked with each other. And yes, Seshan laughs like hell. And we laugh at each other and ourselves, because true laughter is at your own self.

Once the ambiguity over the constitutional postion of the CEC ended -- the Supreme Court had ruled that all the three election commissioners have equal powers -- we worked together and it was always unanimous.

How else do you think we had arrived at unanimous decisions on Kashmir and everything?

Because my proposition was clear. Seshan gave me enough time, so I gave him every time, so did my colleague G V G Krishnamurty. There were days when I told Seshan, ''Seshan tu nahi manega to hum doonom chotdenge (we will leave if Seshan does not agree).'' Because a good Commission or a good Cabinet never works on the basis of voting. I have seen five prime ministers. You argue and persuade and that is what we do to each other. Nobody knows how many times I give up. I don't feel overruled, it is just that GVG has got a better idea or (Election Commissioner) J M Lyngdoh has.

Have you ever contested any elections?

Contested ha ha ha! Yes, yes, yes. You know when I was in Government College, Ludhiana, we had a good democracy and used to elect a president. MA students used to contest the poll, campaign and then met in the college hall. The candidates used to make speeches and then you went and voted. I wish this would go on in the country calmly.

I was then in BA. My friends somehow pushed me and said you stand for the class representative. Somebody asked my friend Jaggi Anand, who is Maneka Gandhi's uncle, to contest the poll, which he did. Then all our mutual friends said one of us should withdraw. But my attitude to life is that once it is done it is done, there is no going back.

I am an Amritsar Taran Taran man. You better remember that. I said 'no'. So we stood and I lost to Jaggi. But after that I think I got good wisdom -- election me mut khade hona. Ya khade hona to (don't contest the pool -- if you do) then you'll have to lose. That is part of the game.

And in future…

I mean, this is my attitude. I leave it at that.

The Rediff Election Interviews