ELECTIONS '98
COMMENTARY
SPECIALS
INTERVIEWS
CAPITAL BUZZ
REDIFF POLL
DEAR REDIFF
THE STATES
YEH HAI INDIA!
ARCHIVES

The Rediff Interview/Dr Mubashir Hasan

'Pakistan's economy is extremely sound, perhaps sounder than India as far as potential is concerned'

Dr Mubashir Hasan was finance minister of Pakistan from 1971 to 1974. Since his roots are in India, he was dismayed with the recent nuclear tests, seeing it as a setback for Indo-Pak ties. In an interview with Amberish K Diwanji in his tastefully furnished bungalow in the old part of Delhi, he spoke on the need to convert the present crisis into an opportunity.

What steps should India and Pakistan take in the aftermath of the tests?

The nuclear tests by both countries were, in my view, most unfortunate. It has produced danger as well as opportunity. Please recall that, in the Chinese language, there are two symbols for crisis: one is danger and the other, opportunity.

The danger, of course, is of an accidental war that will destroy the subcontinent for a century, besides affecting the world. Here, I would like to point out that, in all the past wars between India and Pakistan, civilians were never targeted. The soldiers exchanged fire, but always respected civilian populations as far as was possible.

However, these tests also present an opportunity. India can no longer complain that Pakistan is guilty of bringing big powers into the subcontinent, as it had when Pakistan involved the United States and United Kingdom in CENTO and SEATO in the 1950s.

Isn't it strange that both India and Pakistan are simultaneously the target of sanctions by the US and the West? Therein lies the opportunity. India and Pakistan should evolve a joint strategy to produce not only their own denuclearisation agenda, but one for the whole world as well.

In what way do the blasts affect the rest of the world vis-à-vis the subcontinent?

The blasts say the days of dominating South Asia on the basis of naked military power are over. It will take several years for the US, Japan and Europe to adjust to this new situation.

It also means that the centuries-old domination of the Indian Ocean, the Arabian Sea and the Persian Gulf by the European powers will no longer be possible.

To what would you attribute the sad situation regarding Indo-Pak ties?

The history of the past 50 years and the legacy of the Muslim League-Congress discord heavily weigh down progress in Indo-Pak ties.

The Muslim League and the Congress, Pakistan and India are steeped in the same culture of taking a position and sticking to it, regardless of the price they have to pay. In our culture, when close relations fight, reconciliation is very difficult. We can be generous to foreigners, but not to the people of our own culture.

Pakistan accuses India of not really having accepted Partition. India replies that it was unhappy with Partition, but has accepted Pakistan as an independent country. Recently, A B Vajpayee declared that Pakistan's progress, prosperity and security is in India's interest. This is a very good, a very welcome development.

Do you see much hope for Indo-Pak ties?

Today, most Indians and Pakistanis recognise that improving relations is absolutely essential. This has been realised not just by the intellectuals and journalists, but also by the common men and the top leaders, both of whom I meet. We have also seen this in the Convention of Pakistan India Peoples' Forum for Democracy, two meetings of which have been held in India and one in Pakistan. The next meet is in Peshawar in November.

The politicians, however, are causing the problems. For 50 years, they have built up support for themselves by hurling vitriol against the other nation. Now, despite wanting to improve relations in private, they have become prisoners of their own rhetoric. They are finding it difficult to change.

However, I remain hopeful. I am confident that the situation will improve in the not-too-distant future. I am talking of five to 10 years.

Yet, don't the radical positions of the leaders receive a rousing reception among the ordinary people?

The hard positions of the leaders and the response they receive only reflect a scenario that the people have been fed with for the past 50 years. When the governments and the media tycoons supporting them are convinced they will face new opportunities if they act as truly mature citizens, then the tone of the media will change. And the people will respond to gestures of peace as they today respond to gestures of war.

In my opinion, the hard positions of the government will not last for long. Both sides realise that hard positions will not produce results and will have to be abandoned.

Following the sanctions, what is the situation of the Pakistani economy?

Pakistan's economy is extremely sound, perhaps sounder than India as far as potential is concerned. Will it surprise you to hear that Pakistan's ruling elite has stashed $ 100 billion in the US alone during the last two-three decades, whereas the country's total debt is only $ 32 billion? This $ 100 billion figure was revealed to me by the American consul general in Karachi on March 21. I am mentioning this to show the earning ability of Pakistan, and that if Islamabad improves the management of its resources, it can ride the sanctions. You must also remember that, on a per capita basis, Pakistan's income is higher than India's.

What about the issue of Kashmir and the firing across the Line of Control?

Kashmir is no longer a dispute concerning India and Pakistan. It concerns the Kashmiri people whose wishes and aspirations must be accommodated. It is their resistance for the last eight years that has made it impossible for any Indian-sponsored civilian government to protect the life and property of the people there.

The wishes of the Kashmiri people have to be ascertained; they have to be a party to the solution. India and Pakistan cannot ignore the Kashmiris, who are a major aspect to any solution to the Kashmir dispute.

As for the exchange of fire across the LoC, the military commanders should be able to control it.

The Rediff Interviews