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The Business Interview/Shombit Sengupta

'Indian corporations fail to understand the role of brands'

In Bombay recently, he gave an exclusive interview to Saisuresh Sivaswamy where he spoke about his work and his daring journey from childhood poverty in Bengal to acclaim in France. Excerpts from the interview:

What did Lakme expect you to do to the brand?

First, they expressed to me what the company stands for, over the last 40 years. Then they told me what the present was, that it is the authority brand for the corporation in India for colour cosmetics. And from there on, they gave me total liberty, because they have known me since a long time and we stand for professionalism. They asked me to go ahead with my team and evaluate what we stand for and recommend what we should do.

What we have done is a detailed audit of the company: What it stands for, what is their core competence. From there, we went to see their marketplace, the distribution, everything, how it works across the country. And then, my managing director Chandana Dey and myself, we travelled to understand the Indian woman's psyche throughout the country. From there, we came out with our final solution.

Why did they feel the brand needed an overhaul? Did they feel the brand had run aground?

Well, you know, the consumer is changing a lot, especially after liberalisation. I have known Lakme managing director Anil Chopra and (Simone) Tata since 1983 and I wanted to work with them. They always looked ahead. When we did a study of the brand, what we found was a fantastic top of the mind presence, but it lacked an identity. Lakme stands for women, it is the only brand that can understand the Indian woman's needs. This is a fantastic evaluation point. But you know, sometimes what happens is that you have the perception and you have to reveal it physically to see, to understand what it stands for.

How do you go about redesigning brands?

We proceeded this way, and then I proposed to Chopra, who is a very creative and innovative gentleman and understands our way of thinking, that we wanted to redefine the company, bring skincare and cosmetics together into one unique solution. And then we started our patent "P&P research": perceived and potential value, to find out what Lakme stands for. When you understand this, from there we can go ahead to the potential value. Then we came out with this idea about a source of radiant beauty.

I must tell you that Chandana Dey helped me a lot. I had left India 24 years ago and to understand Indian women in the different provinces and different cultures is not easy. She worked hard, especially since I wanted lots of information about the behaviour of Indian women. Slowly, we got the information; it took us nine months to understand what Lakme stands for, what the Indian market stands for, and what is the competition. Then we started work on the design.

How hopeful are you that the new look will work?

I cannot say, but I am very proud to have been involved. My team in India, Calcutta, and in Paris have done a really good and brilliant job and I am proud of it. It was a nice collaboration with the Lakme team. Now let us see what success comes our way. Normally, whatever we have done has brought a lot of success to the business. Let us see the case for Lakme.

Does a brand overhaul in India also mean an overhaul of the corporate image?

I think for tomorrow's world, corporates should think like a brand. Thinking like a corporation, in an institutional way, is old-fashioned. Corporate thinking as a brand will give you an edge. As a brand, you are not talking with the wind, the sky, or the wood; you are talking with somebody who thinks. That way a human attitude in the corporation will always be there. If you cannot talk to the consumer, you will have to explain all the time.

In our work in the European style, within a second the consumer understands what the brand stand for. You begin by explaining to the consumers and then you become friends. Consumers take time to buy their products: for some products they will take two seconds to buy, for some they will take one minute. Within this time, a silent picture will talk to the consumer.

How different is it to work for foreign companies and Indian companies?

More or less, it is the same. The only difference is that in India we work from the beginning of the stage. With the consumer attitude and corporation systems, they are the same. The difference is that after World War II, Europe had lots of time -- 50 years -- to build everything. But in India, we cannot do exactly what they did yesterday or are doing today. We have to really start from the beginning, understand the consumer, what quality stands for. I think old companies must understand what we have done for Lakme. We have first talked about quality. If the consumers cannot measure a product's value, you cannot ask them to pay more money all the time. Let them understand the kind of value they are getting.

What is the ultimate objective for redesigning a brand? Is it a better bottomline, or better service?

I think the redesign is not the key goal. To understand a company's strategy, to focus on its long-term strategy, a new vision, this is the real goal. And to prove this strategy, if you need to change, then you have to change to see tomorrow. But we cannot say that we come and changed everything. We see what there is and from there we think that if your equity and values are strong, you can go further.

Is a better bottomline a factor?

I think by my experience of the first 15 years and my experience in Europe, most of my clients had already analysed what to do when they met me. I don't think our clients will let us utilise his money if we don't give him exactly what he wants. It is not a matter of service, you can always give better service. Our real service is to make the good future of a company better, give it profitability and vision; that they will not be stuck and can always move. I think this is what companies can always get from us and this is our equity. Because by the time we finish our work, they have already paid us but we are responsible. I tell myself that if I take one paisa or rupee from any company then I should give them the exact response. That's why they are paying something.

In India a lot of your work is done by advertising agencies. Do you see a conflict in roles?

I don't see any conflict. In the past two years, we have worked in India with Britannia, Lakme, Marico's Parachute brand. I think we are very complementary. We work with the management team, seeking their core values. We are not competing with anybody. Most of the advertising agencies have collaborated with me and they are very nice people; they understood which way I wanted to take the company, they very much wanted to cooperate a lot.

Even in Europe our position in the company is of strategic consultancy. When you talk to us, you should know I will give you the core competence of the company and from there we will go on. And even if the core competence of the company is being done by an advertising agency, we can work with them.

Is there a particular method of work that you follow?

Oh yes, I have a particular method. We have six stages of work, a design kind of work for each corporation. For different corporations, we change the way of working.

The first is a very drastic audit of the company and the different levels of management, to understand what are the ingredients that we have got. We try to write down a report.

Then, we make our inhouse P&P research, perceived and potential values research, which is very important. When we started in India, I wondered how I would understand them. I did from Chandana, whom we had trained in Paris for some time and then asked her to work in India, but not to be influenced by European styles.

Next, we work out some ideas we have on strategic orientation, what the company stands for. We get feedback from the consumer, and gain an insight into the classical values.

From the classical values, we then focus on some potential thoughts. It is very hypothetical. At first, you have to be daring to put out these ideas. We have to understand what is the perception of the global corporation, and fortunately this is our creative strength. And when you go for the potential value, we put out some ideas. For Lakme it was the concept of the source of radiance and beauty. Beauty everybody understands, but source andradiance really hooked consumers. And then we found that we need to bring something more. Beauty comes from within, from inside, and Lakme is the only company that can talk of the inner value of Indian women. We got our feedback to this.

Then we start to finetune, and go on to another stage, the national P&P research. Here we have an agreement with one of the research agencies called Quantum. They are working on all our projects and have prepared our recommendations. At this point, we are nearly at the sixth stage.

The sixth stage is the finished artwork and the strategic orientation: how it should be communicated, and based on the source of radiant beauty as in the case of Lakme. The source of radiant beauty is the value of the whole corporation, it should communicate everything. All advertising, all communication strategy, whatever it is in the share market, everything should be this.

At the sixth stage, we have much work with the marketing team of the client for the training programme, telling them how to implement, which is very important. Because if you do good work and if implementation is bad, then it nothing will come of it.

Is there any reason why you use a lot of natural colours?

I think you will find a lot of natural colours in my painting; I am very elated by the natural vibrant colours and I try to put them in my work. If the consumer reacts to my colour, it is not to me but to the painter. In Britannia, nobody knows me, but the consumers, they love my work.

Are you happy with the Britannia job?

I think it is very good, and I think (CEO Sunil) Alagh really understood me, my work, my strategic company. In India, all the companies were really nice with us and really cooperated well.

Is there anything unique about designing for Indian companies?

I have always believed you should match with different countries and people. From the very beginning, when I went to Paris, I would say that I needed to match them, they don't need to match me. When I match with them, automatically they will accept me if I want to do something better. Matching and adjustment are important issues.

I don't have to be very different for India, but I have to be very professional. I have to be very European undoubtedly, though I am very, very Indian in my thinking. I will not impose any European style in India. I will do something very Indian which will work in a competitive world. I can assure you that Lakme, with its quality, can challenge any cosmetic brand in the world.

How much awareness do you find in Indian companies about branding?

Firstly, I think branding is an exercise. The marketing thought, the strategic orientation of the corporation will go with the brand, and these are things Indian corporations fail to understand. But it is our job to make them understand. We have to tell them what is lacking, why they are advertising so much and at the end of the day not accumulating enough. If you remember Britannia's previous advertisements, there were too many of them. I don't think the advertising budget puts any pressure on the new launch. Now, everywhere in India, you can see one Britannia logo and one idea is better. To spend money is nothing. When you have money you can spend, but to spend in a way that perception will be accurate and perfect is important.

What is the amount of freedom that companies allow you?

I think my work and our new 'thinking branding' has given sufficient benefit to the corporations. I think they give me a big liberty, but there are lots of constraints. I have to convince them day after day. It is huge work, but at the end they come to a solution. I am also daring because when I believe in something, I don't want to spoil my creative ideas in such a way that many things are lost. It is a conviction.

What is the importance you give to the salability of the new brand?

I'll give one example. In Europe the brands we work on, the minimum turnover of one brand is a billion (French) francs. And if you do anything wrong, you can imagine what is the turnover that will fall down. We are not allowed to make any mistake, it has to be calculated in such a scientific way. The time you bring emotional values, it has to be based on totally rational terms.

How will you sum up your work for brands?

I try to give an emotional value to the corporation based on rational terms. I make the brands futuristic; like a revolving spiral to go on more and more and make the corporation profitable and competitive against any company anywhere in the world.

'Today, when I seek the best colour in the world, I find it in my country'

Photographs: Jewella Miranda