The Manohar Joshi Chat
'What my party did during the riots of 1992-93 was in self-defence'
On Monday, March 22, the day the former chief minister of Maharashtra was expected at the office for the chat, there was just a bit of worry if the ex-CM, with his phalanx of security men, will be able to locate the premises. As Special Correspondent Syed Firdaus Ashraf waited for him near the Cumballa Hill hospital, never the easiest of places to navigate in, Manohar Joshi, after taking one look at the mess that passes off for traffic, quickly alighted from his Mercedes Benz and hotfooted it to the office, even as pedestrians were left agape and his own security tried to cut a swathe through the mass of humanity.
Joshi spent an hour at the office, and fielded questions gamely. Of course, there were also a lot of questions that he could just not answer.
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:1 IST)
Hello, I'm here, how are you? I wish you all good luck I'm indeed grateful to you, and I'll glad reply about me personally and my state, Maharashtra or my country India.
Panduranga (Mon Mar 22 1999 6:58 IST)
Joshisaheb: Are you planning to return to teaching?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:3 IST)
Panduranga : Teaching is my hobby and my profession. I would like to be a student and a teacher for all the times. But I'm not returning to teaching right now, I will be very much in politics working for my party that is the Shiv Sena.
Indian (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:3 IST)
Mr. Manohar Joshi: (repeat Question) Welcome to Rediff's chat. The Shiv Sena (and you) came to power claiming in very shrill and loud terms that the Congress had taken MASSIVE bribes before allowing the Enron project to start. After your so-called 'in-depth' investigation, filing of law suits and counter law suits (wasting public monies), you essentially HAD to admit that the entire deal was squeaky clean and simply HAD to allow the project to continue. Some face-saving concessions were 'extracted' from Enron and bandied before the people as a 'victory'. How much money did the SS get to allow the project to continue? Alternatively (if you claim you were not paid off) what moral authority did you have to continue as the CM of Maharashtra after allowing the Enron project to continue?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:8 IST)
Indian: The ENRON project was stalled by my government because we wanted to review it. It happens sometimes that when a new government comes to power it is always interested in reviewing the projects if there are doubts about corruption. Fortunately the doubts were cleared, the rates were brought down, and my government allowed the project to go on. The project is being speedily completed and the production of electricity may start in the next month. The battle was not taken to the courts by the government of Maharashtra, it was taken to courts by some other people. We supported the project in the court and ultimately we succeeded. We are happy that the government of Maharashtra will be the first in the country to produce huge electricity through ENRON. Our purpose is served and the charges of bribe have been negatived by the high court of Bombay.
Pandurang (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:6 IST)
Sir, there is a view that your administration was one of the most corrupt in the country. Would you like to dispel this opinion? Is that an impression created by your enemies?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:13 IST)
Pandurang: My government has always opposed corruption. It was the first government in the country which published a white paper for removal of corruption in the state. I'm sure that the charges of corruption are not new to this country but these charges were not proved in a single case against my government. Therefore I can say that the charges were politically motivated. It is not the duty of the chief minister to channelise funds by illegal methods to the party or individuals. If I have not done that, I'm proud of it. I must say that my party chief never asked me to do so and therefore the question is ab initio wrong.
Priti Sukhtankar (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:6 IST)
Mr Joshi: Do you meet Balasaheb very often now? Or have the relations between two of you have deteriorated?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:15 IST)
Priti Sukhtankar: There is some pretty between me and Balasaheb, we have been meeting each other as frequently as we were meeting over the last 32 years. The Shiv Sena is one family and Mr Thackeray is the chief of the family. We do not count in a family as to how many times we meet the family chief.
Joseph Isa (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:15 IST)
Mr Joshi, you have often spoken about the bureaucracy's unhelpful attitude towards your government. Now that you are not CM anymore, can you be more open about their obstructionism?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:18 IST)
Joseph Isa: It is not that the entire bureaucracy obstructed the work; there are good and bad people everywhere, in all walks of life. The bureaucracy of Maharashtra as compared to many other states is quite good, they are co-operative and cultured. This is my opinion even after I gave up my chief ministership.
Chander (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:3 IST)
Good evening, sir. When you resigned, I thought there would be a Cabinet post at the Centre waiting for you. Alas, that does not seem to be the case. Why has a Cabinet posting been denied to you, despite your stature?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:21 IST)
Chander: I do not know why Atalji is not expanding his cabinet and I'm sure that at present his bus is over crowded :-) I've been continuously working for the last 32 years in politics. And my party was so kind to me that whatever post was available in the party was given to me by first choice. So if I take rest for sometime it does not matter. But I must correct you, Suresh Prabhu is a through gentleman, a fine man, and represents my party very well in the government of Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. We are happy with him.
A M Raina (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:16 IST)
You defended the Sena and Shri Thackeray very eloquently on the floor of the assembly on the Srikrishna Report issue. I ask you: In all honesty, was your heart in the defence? Can you deny that your party was behind the carnage in January 1993?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:24 IST)
A M Raina*laughing* I worked with conviction and my thinking and the thinking of the party is the same. I repeat what I said on the floor of the house. What my party did during the riots of 1992-93 was in self-defence and nothing more.
Cricketcrazy (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:18 IST)
I might forgive you for your communal leanings..... I might forgive you for all the corrupt practices that were carried on during your tenure as Chief Minister, but I will never forgive you for what you did to the Prudential Cup at the BCCI office. You should have resigned at that very moment to have been associated with hoodlums who have no respect for national pride. The Prudential Cup is the pinnacle of our cricketing glory, how could you and your wretched men harm that trophy? SHAME, MR JOSHI, SHAME
Cricketcrazy (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:20 IST)
Answer MR Joshi........at least apologise for what u have done. Though you can never be forgiven for the dastardly act....at least give up the VP post you hold at the MCA.
Cricketcrazy (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:26 IST)
Please leave the game of cricket for cricket lovers and sportspersons to handle. You can handle your dirty game of politics elsewhere.........do not corrupt the game and put the nation to shame........
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:31 IST)
Cricketcrazy: I do not think there is anything to apologise on the issue of Cricket match against Pakistan. The whole episode that took place in our country, one must try to understand Mr Thackeray properly. Me and Mr Thackeray are cricket crazy, cricket plays an important role in our life. But nothing more important than the sovereignty of our country, particularly the issue of Kashmir and the activities of terrorists in northern regions of India. Mr Thackeray always felt that first we shall have good relations with Pakistan and the cricket match should take place thereafter. On one side Pakistan encouraged terrorism to kill Indians, and on the other hand on the bloody wicket they will play a cricket match. That is what he does not like, but ultimately he respected the wishes of the prime minister and withdrew the agitation in the larger interest. I was the chief minister that time. I was elected as the president of the Mumbai Cricket Association three times unanimously, and not even once and not from any corner of the organisation was my resignation asked for, for the stand I have openly taken. Those people who had broken the cup were not the people of my party and such action must be condemned by all.
SANTOSH (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:19 IST)
Mr Joshi' How many people have been convicted or arrested for the attacks on cinema theatres or the BCCI office. Do you tell your children to be honest? What do I tell my child about defacing public property? Do I tell him that the government would never shield criminals? Do I tell him that the police are there to protect him and that agencies of the government would never stoop so low that they would deface public property or steal taxpayers money since they are the ones asking us to pay taxes or else.... What exactly do I tell my child about respecting people in public office and the police ???
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:34 IST)
Santosh: I always felt that the culture of our country is different than the Western culture and therefore pictures like Fire needed some changes which were fortunately done afterwards. You can tell your children to adopt the good culture of our country. But for damaging the theatre and also the BCCI office, a number of culprits were arrested and matters are in court. It is the right of everybody to protest democratically but damage to public property has to be stopped. My government did not hesitate to arrest the concerned boys irrespective of their political affiliations.
Pandurang (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:19 IST)
Do you believe the Shiv Sena will come back to power next year? Do you think the government must be led by a Thackeray, and not a Joshi or a Rane?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:37 IST)
Pandurang: Shiv Sena will positively come back to power in the forthcoming elections. It's only because a number of projects have been done by the government which are appreciated by the public at large. The work which is done by the Sena-BJP government in four years' time could not be done by the previous governments in 40 years, as regards drinking water, roads and water for irrigation. The best person to lead the government is Mr Thackeray.
S K Srivastava (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:35 IST)
Shri Joshi: Why did you not get along with Shri Munde? Was it the difference in your backgrounds? In the way you perceived politics?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:41 IST)
Srivastava: I don't think that there was any difficulty in getting along with Mr Munde for the first three years. He has always been like a younger brother to me. I really do not know what happened to him after the completion of three years of government. He always respected me and our pair was very popular not only in the state but in the country as well. Of course, it is true that the background of both of us was different and two persons can never be same like each other. And therefore nobody is better than other.
Dr Gupte (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:38 IST)
A penniless young man comes to Bombay. He eats at other's homes to survive. Today he is a millionaire many times over. Can you deny, sir, that politics helped you make your fortune?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:43 IST)
Dr Gupte: The city of Mumbai is like this, that a man from street can become a rich man. He can become a millionaire too. It is not necessary that he should be in politics for doing that. I had my flat, my car, at the age of 26, before I entered politics. Business is my hobby and business, if done seriously, makes you a millionaire. So, what's wrong in it if I became a millionaire..?
S K Srivastava (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:44 IST)
Let me rephrase the question to get past your diplomacy... What were the main differences between the Bharatiya Janata Party and the Shiv Sena? Why did the BJP make such an issue about you?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:50 IST)
Srivastava: The difference between the Sena and the BJP is that Shiv Sena openly preaches Hindutva. It's an organization of young workers. And the party has one supremo, that is Mr Balasaheb Thackeray. The BJP is a national party, and has some common issues with Shiv Sena no doubt. But it has national problems before it. There may be one or two person who may not be happy with me. Otherwise, the entire BJP has no grievance against me because originally, I also belonged to the RSS.
sunil (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:50 IST)
What is your calculation of the judgment. Will it be in your favour or else?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:46 IST)
Sunil: There is much iceberg below the sea. But since the high court judgment is yet to be challenged in the Supreme court, I would not like to comment at this stage. I will speak frankly after the SC judgment comes out.
Indian (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:47 IST)
Mr. Manohar Joshi: (repeat Question) Thanks for answering my previous question. One issue that MUST be dealt with is the sharp decline in the attractiveness of Mumbai as a beachhead to do business in India. With the advent of the techno-centric CM of AP (Chandrababu Naidu) and the growing prominence (internationally) of Bangalore, don't you think you should have done SOMETHING to increase the profile of Mumbai? Don't you think Mumbai deserves FAR better than the state to which it has been reduced right now?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:53 IST)
Indian: My concentration in the last four years was on basic necessities of people like drinking water, housing, toilets to the rural women. And water for irrigation. I thought that before going to 21st century and computerisation, I must look after the food, shelter, literacy of the people which I did. This year, 1999, is now declared as IT year. But even in the field of IT, the state of Maharashtra stands number one if you look to the export of software from the city of Mumbai..
sacs (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:45 IST)
The projects that the government have completed have not been projected by your PR dept. Don't you think that the right picture of the government has not reached the masses. Another part is the arrogance of the Shiv Sena vibhag, jhilla and shakha pramukhs, which has hampered the image of the government.
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:56 IST)
sacs: I agree with the first part of the question. More PR should have been done. As regard the second part, in Shiv Sena there are mostly young boys and therefore they are mostly misunderstood. But if somebody goes close to them they are not arrogant but helpful.
Dr Gupte (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:49 IST)
Thank you, Mr Joshi. Will Manohar Joshi now retire from politics at the age of 61?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:57 IST)
Dr Gupte: In our country, the retirement age for a politician is 100. I will not work beyond that.
ChagganBhujbal (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:55 IST)
Arrey Manohar........come over to the Congress.....look I am so contented here. Lots of money here also......Pawar is much smarter....Loads of money less work...That's what u want....C'mon......I'll send my car if you want to come over a glass of tadimadi....... Yete tar saang mala?Ye...khup mazaa yeil.
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:58 IST)
Chaggan Bhujbal: Chagganrao, my politics is different. I earn money by doing business, my party is not my business. I am happy, where I am. And you be happy where you are..
Aatha Kya Khandala (Mon Mar 22 1999 7:48 IST)
Are you a bitter man today? Or will make a comeback like Mohinder Amarnath? Or will you spend the rest of your life with your grandchildren?
Mr Manohar Joshi (Mon Mar 22 1999 8:3 IST)
Aati Kya Khandala: I always liked to spend my time with the grandchildren also. And in politics, there are people grown up but still their brain is like a child's. And therefore, whether I am at home or outside, I enjoy them. My comeback cannot be yet decided because I am still in politics so there is no question of comeback.
EVERYBODY: THANKS FOR THOSE WHO ASKED QUESTIONS AND I LIKED QUESTIONS FROM STUDENTS, BEING A TEACHER AND QUESTIONS FROM PEOPLE BECAUSE MY FUTURE DEPENDS ON THE PEOPLE. GOOD NIGHT.
Photographs: Devyani Chandwadkar
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